VallalarSpace Discussion Forum
Strictly no caste - no religion - no race
Dear all,

Why our vallalar is so strict in this aspect !

He said with stress in more places of his sixth thirumurai.

Especially in agaval, kodi song, punitha kulam parumaru pugalal, etc

I feel it is so important as it is one of his 10 important points of sanmarga kolgai

Explain more like why is it so ?
senthil
14 Comments
dannyjrs
Vallalar is very strict in this aspect because Religion/ casts /sects divides people and does not create Universal Soul love/compassion/brotherhood/sisterhood ( Anma Neiya Orumaippadu)
He did not place any stress on Sixth Thirumurai. Sixth Thirumurai is only for advanced practioners. For 99.99% of the people have to first read first five thirumurais /prose works and try to follow the advise given in day to day life.
Monday, December 4, 2006 at 06:51 am by dannyjrs
cutessk
I have contradict view with your reply Brother !
Actually first five thirumurais are equal to body except head !
Sixth thirumurai is equal to head and is so important !
This is the one where our vallalar expressed himself fully and here only he proposed
Jothi valipadu- light god !
His final stages are clearly explained in sixth thirumural only !
Even he is telling in PERUPADESAM that I had lesser knowledge in earlier stages of my life
so that I portrayed small deivams like murugan,etc
And also the word STRESS in SIXTH THIRUMURAI, I mean to convey only
STRESS on Strictness in no caste-no religion-no race
And for every pratitioners, till my knowledge is concerned, they should only go thru SIXTH THIRUMURAI
to attain greater heights in vallalar's SUDHA SANMARGA path
senthil
Monday, December 4, 2006 at 08:01 am by cutessk
Kandasamy Ganesan
Senthil,
I totally agree with you. Yes, Vallalar in his PERUPADESAM had mentioned all his five THIRUMURAIs as witnesses to his little knowledge about the God.
It shows that Vallalar’s recommendation to each and every one of us is to read and practice one and one only THIRUMURAI. That THIRUMURAI is the SIXTH THIRUMURAI . The SIXTH THIRUMURAI is for all of us, not for advanced practitioners only.
Reading and understanding SIXTH THIRUMURAI is easier if we didn’t read all previous five THIRUMURAI . Reading and understanding SIXTH THIRUMURAI is more difficult if we read it after we read all previous five THIRUMURAI . This is because the concept in the 6th Thirumurai is totally different from all other previous Thirumurai. Not only that, we don’t have enough lifetime to read everything.
K. Ganesan
Monday, December 4, 2006 at 11:04 am by Kandasamy Ganesan
sargurubhathem
Why you say, first-five Thirumurais are different from Sixth Thirumurai?
Why you said the word concept?
Why it is difficult to understand sixth Thirumurai if someone understands five Thirumurais?
Can you please explain what do you mean by?
Monday, December 4, 2006 at 14:02 pm by sargurubhathem
Kandasamy Ganesan
Sargurubathem,
Sixth Thirumurai talks about Advaida which should be as our final goal.
first-five Thirumurais talk about Duvaida which is the one majority of spiritual leaders teach us.
Duvaida is based on the concept that God is creator and we are all created by God.
Advaida is based on the concept that God and all here are one and the same. God is in everything. All here are nothing but God.
It is difficult to digest this concept while we move to the ultimate goal of Advaida from Duvaida
K. Ganesan
Monday, December 4, 2006 at 17:50 pm by Kandasamy Ganesan
ganesan.vaidya
swamigal said that advaitha is automatically realized when one matures from Dwaitha. Many Spiriual masters like madhvacharya Chaithanya have proved that by talking about advaitha nothing can be acheived. Adi Shankara has confirmed that advaitham is an experience. Nobody can narrate an experience and make others feel the same experience. A lot of intellectual war has been fought on the philosophical ground in the past 2000 years in India. That's why swamigal said it is all experiences at different levels. All are right in their own level. In a song Nam Bramam in the deiva mani malai (which comes in the first 5 thirumurais) he critisizes advaithic thinking. Also in Mahadeva malai he touches upon different schools like advaitham, vichishtadvaitham etc.
I think Reading the thirumurais in a proper chronological order is a good way to understna Ayya's evolution from a pure devotee to Arutperumjothi.
Can somebody provide a proper chronological sequence of all the songs swamigal composed. I know it is not that easy to arrenge . But if someone has and can share it will be a great help.
Panivudan
Ganesan VP
Tuesday, December 5, 2006 at 06:37 am by ganesan.vaidya
Kandasamy Ganesan
Ganesan ,
The song Nam Bramam in the deiva mani malai (which comes in the first 5 thirumurais) is not to criticize advaithic thinking.
This song talks about those who say advaitha but they don't know the actual meaning of advaitha.
K. Ganesan
Wednesday, December 6, 2006 at 13:13 pm by Kandasamy Ganesan
cutessk
Reading chronological order is ok Brother.
But still the starting point and end point needs to be SIXTH THIRUMURAI !
That is required and must I believe !
And as per my understanding also, the SIXTH THIRUMURAI only tells about Sudha Sanmargam and
even I find our Vallalar has Started SUDHA SANMARGA SANGAM when he was writing the SIXTH THIRUMURAI !
If I m wrong pls correct me !
- - -
Then, I find in one of the replies, it will take life long to read THIRUARUTPA !
I have contradict Idea to it !
Actually, the purpose of reading is to get WHAT OUR VALLALAR WANTS US TO DO
If this is RIGHT, then as he said in ARUL VILAKA MALAI,
Books are all magic, and thru arul we can learn what to do and what not to easily
Even though books here meant only other VEDA's, PURANA's and related books.
The concept is understandable and applicable here too.
Understanding books are to put it in to ACTIONS !
Those great ACTIONS we can learn thru ARUL !
Then How to get ARUL ?
Jeeva Karunyam(Esp. High level - Give food Avoid kill ) + Anma Neya Orumaipadu (Seeing Every life as God and as Same)
Note : Life not means only Humans. It includes very small ANT to big ELEPHANT as Vallalar explained
Clearly
senthil
Thursday, December 7, 2006 at 03:18 am by cutessk
Kandasamy Ganesan
Senthil,
I didn’t say that it will take life long to read THIRUARUTPA !. We don’t have enough lifetime to read everything. The majority of devotees stay in first five Thirumurais believing that they are not matured enough to read the 6th Thirumurai. This mental attitude should change. The 6th Thirumurai is full of ultimate truth which shouldn’t be missed by anyone.
K. Ganesan
Thursday, December 7, 2006 at 09:23 am by Kandasamy Ganesan
cutessk
Brother,
You are perfectly correct ! I agree up on your view !
Sixth thirumurai is Uncomparable and Ultimate POWERFUL poems
Consists of our Vallalar words and Supreme ArutPerun Jothi Andavar's words thru Vallalar !
In my conclusive words, I strongly recommend every SUDHA SANMARGI to Read - follow - Practice - Experience
words of SISTH THIRUMURAI !
Every wordsis powerful as like Supreme power !
I realised it ! And want u all to taste that AMIRTA !
senthil
Monday, December 11, 2006 at 08:52 am by cutessk
dannyjrs
Please try to read Mahadeva Maalai from Third Thirumurai and Nenjuariviruthal. Mahadeva Maalai have lots of parallel teaches from Sixth thirumurai
Wednesday, December 13, 2006 at 06:07 am by dannyjrs
vaithilingam namasivayam
CASTE: God Almighty alone has the right (swathanthiram) to bestow this physical body to a soul and He alone has the right to take away the soul from the body. Human beings have no right. Hence they cannot desire the birth or the death of anyone. (See Manumurai kanda vasakam) So it is obvious that parents cannot choose their children and children cannot choose parents. A person is said to belong to a certain caste on the basis of the caste of the father. If neither parents nor children have choice, how come the society concludes that one belongs to a particular caste merely on the basis of birth?
The deep-rooted impressions “I belong to this caste and he/she belongs to my caste” feed ego and hinder the flow of compassion. One may tend to ignore a hungry person because he is from a different caste though he is in need of immediate relief. Caste acts as a fetter (ThiruArutpa 1972) and does not allow a spiritual aspirant to progress further. The practices of different castes ensure that members do not identify them with any other caste and create an artificial barrier. (See the last Para of sathya chiru vinnappam) This goes against the basic philosophy of Universal Brotherhood. Hence Vallalar’s prayer to Almighty to prevent such things from making any impressions on the mind.
RACE: The reason given for caste is also applicable to race.
RELIGION: The essence of any religion is spiritualism-the realization of oneness of souls. Ideally it should lead to the union of the soul and Supreme Soul. However the different practices of various religions have, overtime, deviated from their goal and many have contributed to the divisions in the society. Such practices ignore the basic truth that eternal happiness is one to one experience of the soul with the Supreme Soul and as such there is no role for any organized religion. Further, how can external practices designed for people at specific levels of maturity be made applicable as rules to be followed by all? So Vallalar cautions humanity and appeals to go beyond religion.
Wednesday, December 13, 2006 at 11:19 am by vaithilingam namasivayam
lamp_of_heaven
It is simple in my view. One must be careful not to blasphemy or insult the Lord.
The Lord is manifest in all beings and in we humans, the higher centers are opened. If we insult some class or caste or race of persons...we insult the Lord. Even if we think animals are so different from oneself and cause them pain without reason or for stupid reasons like meat, then we are attacking the Lord. How can have full union with the Lord if we insult and attack Him(Her/It)
I don't here you mention gender...
Regarding religion. There is a quote in the Gospel of Mathew in the Christian bible. Jesus is being accused by the corrupt priestcraft of usig the power of the devil to work his miracles. He says he is using the Holy Spirit (vary similar to what we call Grace Power). Then he says, If you blasphemy against me, you will be forgiven. If you blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, you will not be forgiven.
There is One True God. All the Gods of the more refined religions are this God or what Holiness people benefit from is this Grace Power. So, if one says that such and such a person's God is a devil or a samsaric being, then one may, in actuality, be calling ones own God a devil.
An English Occultist of the early 20th century, a successor to Blavatsky in carrying on the work of the Brotherhood said, The Devil is the God of anyone whom you personally dislike.
Saturday, December 16, 2006 at 15:05 pm by lamp_of_heaven
lamp_of_heaven
Regarding what is said earlier about the 6th Thirumurai versus the earlier works, and how this relates to the direct/complete view and the gradaul/dualistic view, I have this to say.
Work with the direct view. If one cannot work with this view, work with some other practice or view for a while, then try this direct view again after one has loosened the mind a bit some yoga. The direct view is the heart of the path. The various methods of yoga are tools. If one has driven a nail, one puts away the hammer. Yoga is like this. If one is too discursive to realize the direct view, one focuses through some yoga. Once one is focused, apply the direct recognition. If one falls again into discursiveness, apply the yoga again.
According to Vallalar's own words, he was a Siddhanta Yogi until he broke through into this higher vehicle. So, perhaps the first five Thirumurai might be considered Siddhanta, while the Sixth is true Sanmarga? If Vallalar Himself used Siddhanta to reach a place where he could enter Sanmarga, (after attaining so much in his life like the Vision of Murugan at age 9 or recalling active participation in his own genetic code during conception!!!) then we shouldn't feel too bad about having to apply a little yoga once in a while.
Saturday, December 16, 2006 at 15:15 pm by lamp_of_heaven